tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3470947677010915805.post1654380340397332562..comments2024-02-10T00:34:26.015-08:00Comments on It's Iimi!: Tablet Thoughts: Incredulity, Speculation and Open-minded ThinkingDavid Wanathttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05772165652884803417noreply@blogger.comBlogger2125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3470947677010915805.post-69744175657280285392013-08-11T13:10:10.397-07:002013-08-11T13:10:10.397-07:00I thought your name looked familiar, so I looked i...I thought your name looked familiar, so I looked it up. It seems you show up all over the internet making comments on Catholic blogs concerning Exsurge Domine , trying to tie it in to whatever topic the blogger is writing about.<br /><br />https://www.google.com/search?q=bill+bannon+exsurge+domine&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a <br /><br />That seems like trollish behavior to me. But, since you’ve decided to come to my site, my response will be in relation to my topic of the blog: Open mindedness vs. incredulity/speculation.<br /><br />The problem is, you’ve effectively made my point about speculation and incredulity vs. the open mind. The open minded person would seek to understand the Church understanding of this document, asking him or herself, “Do I understand what the Church actually intends by this document?”<br /><br />For example, there is a vast difference in the eyes of the Church between a person who formally rejects the Church and leaves her vs. the person who was born outside the Church and never knew the truth about her. The Church has always expressly forbade forced conversions, considering them invalid.<br /><br />But, instead of recognizing these facts, you’ve instead contrasted your personal understanding of the meaning this document with Veritatis Splendor, seeking to indicate a break in teaching where there is none. <br /><br />What you have done is to form your idea through speculation… making a conclusion on an inadequate number of facts and then become incredulous, refusing to consider claims which challenge your understanding. The mention in Exsurge Domine #33 does not assert all non believers must be burned. Rather it points out that the Church has authority to inflict penalties. <br /><br />In the 21st century, we find the concept of burning barbaric (and it was). But, it was considered a common means of punishment in a much more violent age – look up the drawing and quartering practiced in Protestant England for example. <br /><br />Heresy was considered a capital crime punishable by burning in Protestant (Remember John Calvin and Geneva?) and Catholic countries. That doesn’t make the harsh customs of the times right, but it shows that they were the customs of the times and not religious doctrines.<br /><br />Exsurge Domine is a document which does not lay out formal definitions on how heretics are to be treated. Rather, it condemns Luther for his claims which deny that the Catholic Church has authority to judge right and wrong (compare this with the 95 theses and it will give a fuller sense of what the Pope was opposing). Pope Leo X condemns Luther’s claims denying Church authority and calls on him to repent and return to the Church.<br /><br />As I said in my article, “Once we realize [X] is true, all other considerations which revolve around [X] must recognize that truth.” So once one recognizes that the Catholic Church is the Church established by Christ and has His authority, it follows that this recognition of authority follows in considering all claims made about the Church, rejecting those claims that contradict the truth.<br /><br /> If you want to be open minded, it would serve you to seek to understand how the Church understands the topics you claim are contradictory, recognizing that it is never right to make a judgment without all the facts.<br />David Wanathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17989208170153778829noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3470947677010915805.post-41876063499269599132013-08-11T03:34:52.367-07:002013-08-11T03:34:52.367-07:00The problem with your concept of the opened mind C... The problem with your concept of the opened mind Catholic is that he or she is helpless through total and frankly non moral obedience to correct the Church's Magisterium which historically needed correction if in fact section 80 of "Splendor of the Truth" by Blessed John Paul II is correct that "torture" and "coercion of spirit" are intrinsic evils. This places "Splendor of the Truth" at total contradiction to Pope Leo X's condemnation of Luther's opposition to burning heretics in " Exsurge Domine", art.33 condemned. bill bannonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09737277581167437670noreply@blogger.com